Curse

Test Me · Sep 11, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Only logging in once every few days. Only to do the stuff I really enjoy. And it makes the game better, it really does.

I agree with all your points. I am down to logging in only once a week or so as well.

HawkofStorms · Sep 11, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Actually, the key to get drunkard is to multi task. When you are spamming selling stuff in Kamadon, drink ale. When you are sitting in your guild hall forming a party for a dungeon run for 8-10 miniutes, drink ale. Heck, I've starting drinking 1 firewater every time I do a Raptor farm (since one run takes ~3 minutes if I intentionally use a slower build and ID all my items in the zone).

Really, the key to drunkard is just to use all your "dead time" in guild wars drinking. You'd be surprised how quickly it adds up.

PS. How can they be rewarding players grind in GW2 when you don't even know what the rewards in GW2 will be? If the rewards are completely meaningless/lame/cosmetic, it won't matter at all.

shoogi · Sep 11, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Devs said that they are aware that eotn is a grind game, and it was made for people that enjoy this type of play.
But didn't they say it BEFORE its release..

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

spend all your free time drinking

Now that's some epic piece of advice!!

Clone · Sep 11, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

The problem is that, even three years in, they don't know what they want the game to be. It is easy to make the argument that they have completely abandoned the concept of skill over time, though they wouldn't admit it. I think thats the very reason they won't dare release any more information about what the HoM will do untill they at least have a few GW2 preorders in. If they announce small rewards, they'll likely piss off the poor fools who actually spent the insane effort of grinding all this crap. If they announce big rewards, they'll prove what a farce their intent of a game about skill rather than time played has become and alienate other players who simply don't want that sort of grind.

illidan009 · Sep 12, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

So HoM is hard to fill for casual players(I'd consider myself one...30 months less than 600 hours) but that's the way it should be...obviously I'm not elitist but I know what I'm doing when I play and I can beat campaigns no problem...no need to QQ about how it's hard to fill, people should be able to have a choice in what kind of MMO they play.

daze · Sep 12, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Legendary Master of the North (1),

I dont mean to pick apart your post, but wouldn't Legendary Master of the North be (5). By the time i had LMotN i was r10 asuran, vanguard, and norn, and deldrimore and i didnt really grind any of those titles.

and when i got guardian of elona and vanquisher of elona, that automatically came with r10 sunspear and r7 Lightbringer.
so in all reality, when you max out all the first titles you listed (legend cartographer, legend vanq, legend guard, legend Master of North) you will have lots of other maxed titles falling right behind.
So really by the time you get Legendary Guardian (7), Legendary Cartographer (4), Legendary Vanquisher (4), Legendary Master of the North (1), you should have about 22 maxed titles because Lightbringer, Sunspear, Norn, Asura, Vanguard, And Deldrimor are already there.

All that is left is legendary skill hunter which is another 4 maxed titles brings you to 26 maxed titles... (So close to god walking among mear mortals) and you didnt even have to PvP or spend tons of cash. the only cash i could imagine spending to max those 26 titles is about 280k for signets of capture. But if you didnt make well over 300k maxing out all those titles, then something is seriously wrong.

w00t! · Sep 12, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

The problem is that, even three years in, they don't know what they want the game to be. It is easy to make the argument that they have completely abandoned the concept of skill over time, though they wouldn't admit it.

Support your assertions with facts, sir. Otherwise it's just blather. Skill still wins, hands down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

I think thats the very reason they won't dare release any more information about what the HoM will do untill they at least have a few GW2 preorders in. If they announce small rewards, they'll likely piss off the poor fools who actually spent the insane effort of grinding all this crap. If they announce big rewards, they'll prove what a farce their intent of a game about skill rather than time played has become and alienate other players who simply don't want that sort of grind.

It's pretty clear that any HoM benefit will not give you a material advantage over other players. All you need to do is to look at 3 years history of "specials" provided. They give you some bling (emotes, minis, et cetera), but other than making it easy to get to level 20, it's all eye candy.

There's no reason to think that Anet will do anything other than what it's done already, namely provide a nice recognition to long-term players, without unbalancing the game in any way.

Shadowhaze · Sep 12, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

The grind isn't fun, no. But when I look at/play other games where you have to play/grind a long time just to level up, GW makes me happy.

Destro Maniak · Sep 12, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

dude OF COURSE this is a grind fest
what else you expected
only people have enough tiems in their hands can play a mmorpg game because it allways req grind

THIS GAME SHOULD HAVE BEEN a grind fest and Im GLAD
what would we have been doing now
killing lich lord for 30th time

I dont think so I just do titles now cause I did everythin else

JASON626 · Sep 13, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

How many people that grind titles are would be happy if GW2 had nothing for the time u spend getting those titles? I hope there won't be huge threads when GW2 is out about how we got ripped off spending hours of grind for nothing. Then I would laugh.

But really content over grind if what would be nice. I guess from what I hear WoW has game updates that add content more missions and such. But I guess thats what u get with monthly subscriptions. I would even pay for more GW games if they added more adventure. GWEN was a bad example of an expansion imo. Too short and dungeons all became a blurr, u done a couple dungeons it feels like u have done them all. The 3 distinct regions were cool just not enough to keep me from running through it. I'd like elite missioin like UW, Urgoz, Deep. Those are fun. DoA is like Slavers on steriods. Grinding for weapons can be fun theres some excitement, kinda like gambling, see what u can get. But for me its not much fun grinding for gold to buy titles to get what? I have more fun doing things new and challenging. A new expansion would make me happy. It would't have to have any new skills to balance or what not just new areas and missions, elite areas new foes etc.

But anywayz, Grinding is for some people, but the other poeple get left bored. PvP really is only fun when your friends are online to play gvg or Ha or whatever. I feel like grind should be one form of gameplay not the only thing.

I understand there will always be an amount of grind in mmo's.

Steps_Descending · Sep 13, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

It's funny that the original GW was actually much more grindy than it is now.
Or perhaps I should say it had more mandatory grindy.

glacialphoenix · Sep 13, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Some titles are definitely grind: SS/LB/GWEN races, although some are more debatable. I personally don't consider Legendary Guardian grind (racing through Cantha on HM was fun, and I loved doing the 4-person missions in HM because there was more kick.)

If you feel like you're grinding, you should take a break. Either stop GWing or go do something different. I vanquish with my friends becaues I find vanquishing solo infinitely boring - so if they aren't around and I want to GW, I AB. It's a change from killing monsters to battling against other players, even if some people don't think it should be considered PvP.

maraxusofk · Sep 13, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

i dont see how skill over time isnt valid anymore. everything is easy to unlock outside of titles. u dont need them to improve ur abilities (except the norn ones and lb, but that has no bearing on pve). skill over time still applies to pvp, but grind is just there to keep people busy. wut mmo doesnt have grind to keep its inhabitants glued to the game? can u imagine how fast u would be finished wit a game if there was no grind?

Clone · Sep 13, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Support your assertions with facts, sir. Otherwise it's just blather. Skill still wins, hands down. It's pretty clear that any HoM benefit will not give you a material advantage over other players. All you need to do is to look at 3 years history of "specials" provided. They give you some bling (emotes, minis, et cetera), but other than making it easy to get to level 20, it's all eye candy.

Here are the facts I'm working with under that assertion:

Nightfall introduced the lightbringer skillset. 8 damage reduction and +40% damage in the endgame areas is not eye candy.

Eye of the North introduced a very large number of skills hinged on grind. Remember these?

Air of Superiority
Asuran Scan
Edification
Mental Block
Mindbender
Pain Inverter
Radiation Field
Smooth Criminal
Summon Ice Imp
Summon Mursaat
Summon Naga Shaman
Summon Ruby Djinn
Technobabble
"By Ural's Hammer!"
"Don't Trip!"
Alkar's Alchemical Acid
Black Powder Mine
Brawling Headbutt
Breath of the Great Dwarf
Drunken Master
Dwarven Stability
Ear Bite
Great Dwarf Armor
Great Dwarf Weapon
Light of Deldrimor
Low Blow
Snow Storm
Stout-Hearted
Deft Strike
Ebon Battle Standard of Courage
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom
Ebon Escape
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support
Rebel Yell
Signet of Infection
Sneak Attack
Tryptophan Signet
Weakness Trap
Winds
"Dodge This!"
"Finish Him!"
"I Am The Strongest!"
"I Am Unstoppable!"
"You Are All Weaklings!"
"You Move Like a Dwarf!"
A Touch of Guile
Club of a Thousand Bears
Feel No Pain
Heart of the Norn
Raven Blessing
Ursan Blessing
Volfen Blessing

Now, I don't mind having slightly overpowered PvE only skills in the game. I finished EoTN, and some of the armor crafters still wouldn't give me the time of day after I had saved them from the destroyers. That is aesthetic, but it also means my skills wouldn't be at full power. To do so, you'd have to spend a considerable amount of time with a character. And, if you liked playing more than one character, repeating this process for all of them is a bit daunting.

So, in a way, I suppose you're right. The game is about skills. There are a number of excellent ones above. Unfortunately, theres a bit of grind tied to each one.

Pandora's box · Sep 13, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

If you don't like grinding, than why bother at all about HoM?. There's no real benefit in GW2, exept some kind of place where you can show your friends, family, relations, guildies, whoever, how good you were in GW1 in... Grinding!

Mind, I don't have anything against grinding, in fact its an important part of the game for many PvE players, but I would never grind for a virtual medal or fancy clothes... So just don't do it if you don't like it and let others do what they like!

w00t! · Sep 13, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Here are the facts I'm working with under that assertion:

Nightfall introduced the lightbringer skillset. 8 damage reduction and +40% damage in the endgame areas is not eye candy.

Eye of the North introduced a very large number of skills hinged on grind. Remember these?
(snip)

Now, I don't mind having slightly overpowered PvE only skills in the game.

I do, I think that PvE only skills are the worst idea ever implement by Anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

I finished EoTN, and some of the armor crafters still wouldn't give me the time of day after I had saved them from the destroyers. That is aesthetic, but it also means my skills wouldn't be at full power. To do so, you'd have to spend a considerable amount of time with a character. And, if you liked playing more than one character, repeating this process for all of them is a bit daunting.

So, in a way, I suppose you're right. The game is about skills. There are a number of excellent ones above. Unfortunately, theres a bit of grind tied to each one.

I'm surprised that you completed all of the quests in GW:EN and did not reach at least R5 in each title track. Didn't know that was possible.

For one, I hate the PvE skills and the fact that most people think that you need them maxed for them to be useful. Anet buffed PvE skills at lower levels so that the difference isn't as marked. Not that this has any effect on players, who still seem to think that maxed titles is a mark of a quality player. But I blame this on the players rather than Anet. Personal responsibility and all that.

As far as the titles go, the point I made earlier still stands. You can attain reasonable levels of every title in GW:EN and Nightfall just by playing the game.

The one exception is the Canthan "Friend" title, which does require grind. It is overpowered, not in the spirit of the game, and should be changed so that it doesn't require a few hours HFFF'ing just to reach the minimum rank.

So we probably agree on more than we disagree; namely: PvE skills suck. Skill > time. Most players are morons.

MagmaRed · Sep 14, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

HoM can be left EMPTY and you can still play GW2. You won't get anything to make you BETTER than someone else by having GW:EN and a filled HoM. Fitz, you still haven't learned what a fantasy game is, and what reality is. Learn how they differ, then join those of us who live in reality and play in fantasy.

Nanood · Sep 14, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

It's not a grind fest it's a game. How you choose to play it will never change that fact.

Fay Vert · Sep 14, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

From a dev's perspective

Title grind = easy to add = cheap
Immersive content and gameplay = hard to do = expensive

Not hard to see why ANet loves adding grind, regardless of how much we don't.

It needn't be like that of course, some content is very good and easy, like when they beefed up Rotscale and added the totem axes, fans and ice breaker to prophesies. If we had an addition like that every month that would be brilliant. But title grind really is too easy to add, so they do it.

Try PvP, its easy, all you have to do to win some is be average. Remenber, 49% of all players are below average.

glacialphoenix · Sep 14, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Canthan "Friend" title, which does require grind. It is overpowered, not in the spirit of the game, and should be changed so that it doesn't require a few hours HFFF'ing just to reach the minimum rank.

Actually, it doesn't take that long if you AB, and vanquishing should get you the minimum rank... I've never HFFFed and I'm r4 Kurz. If you're rushing to max, however, that's a different story.